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Automakers, Refiners Lose Challenge to E15

NACS Online -- The U.S. Appeals Court for the District of Columbia Circuit has dismissed the challenges brought forth by trade associations representing automakers, refiners and other industries on the Environmental Protection Agency’s E15 waiver, saying that the groups did not have a legal right to challenge the EPA decision.

In 2010, EPA issued a partial waiver that allows for the use of E15 in vehicles manufacture during or after model year 2007. In 2011, EPA expanded authorized use of E15 to include model year 2001 and later vehicles.

The American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers (AFPM), one of the groups that challenged the EPA’s E15 waiver, maintains that the court’s decision puts consumers at risk.

“AFPM members want to ensure that all fuels sold into commerce are safe for consumers, effectiv


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Submitted Aug 20, 2012 By: EZExit
Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: Automakers, Refiners Lose Challenge to E15 Back to Topics
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 3:31:56 PM

PhoenixNightOwl - "Where I live, (S. Nebraska), unless the car or truck doesn't "like" E10, everyone uses it, because it's 10-cents a gallon cheaper, & hybrids out here are pretty much useless, since everything is so spread out."

Two things: cheaper to buy doesn't necessarily mean cheaper to operate. You need to check what your mileage is with each, then figure which one is actually cheaper.

And hybrids run on gas, just like your V8, so range isn't a problem.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 1:35:29 PM

PHOENIXNIGHTOWL writes: NASCAR has been using 100% for a long time now, biggest problem is for Fire crews cause it's invisible when burning in sunlight;
_____
Not relevant.

NASCAR builds their engines for each race and they can build the engines to run on ethanol. Our engines were built to accommodate E10 and not more.

We especially don't need E15 at a time when crops are failing due to drought.

[Edited by: Houckster at 8/22/2012 1:41:05 PM EST]
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sparky808
Champion Author Honolulu

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 1:29:42 PM

Thank you for posting.
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PhoenixNightOwl
Rookie Author Nebraska

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 1:14:19 PM

IF an engine is set up for E10, E15, E85, or straight Ethanol, there's nothing wrong with the stuff at all.
NASCAR has been using 100% for a long time now, biggest problem is for Fire crews cause it's invisible when burning in sunlight;
The fire crews have been taught to watch the driver & car:
If there's bubbling paint, hose it with water & it's out;
If the driver is patting their leg or somewhere else, hose the area with water & they're out. No prob.
IF an engine is NOT set up for it, you'll have problems. If your fuel tank is plastic, the car/truck has been set up for it; IF the tank is steel, don't use it unless you're going to go thru almost all of it pretty fast, or you'll end up having to drain the water out of the bottom of the tank, & since tanks haven't had bottom-drains for a very long time now, then use whatever your car or truck is set up for.
I have a big RV (Class-A, the ones that look like a bus), and unfortunately, it runs gas, not diesel. It has a steel tank, but there's a drain plug in the bottom, & instructions in the Owners Manual telling you exactly what kinds of mixes you should & shouldn't use. I put gas in it with stabilizer when I'm not sure I'm going to run it nearly empty & then fill it up again. If I'm taking it someplace, I use E10 or whatever is cheapest, since I'm going to run it almost dry, & the thing drinks fuel like a kid drinks soda-pop. The engine is an '88-'89 HD Ford 460 in a John Deere chassis, & it really doesn't care what I put in it, as long as the stuff burns. It's rated as a "Heavy Duty Truck" chassis, no cat converter, no nothing except evaporative cannisters, & I've got two of them; Anything over 61 gallons is too much for just one, & my tank holds 90 gal. It doesn't ping or knock on anything I can find to run it on, E-whatever or not. It doesn't like E-85 because it has to be re-tuned for it, and I can't reach the adjustments, they crammed that big V8 in there with a shoehorn.
The biggest problem with Ethanol is making it from corn;
Corn is for food, use what's left over for making ethanol, since any vegetable matter will make decent ethanol, but don't waste good food by using it to make fuel, it's just common sense.
If I can ever find a Cummins engine & Allison DT-465 trans for it, I'll switch it out; or if I can find an older Freightliner or Kenworth, etc., those powertrains will fit too, & I don't mind shifting a gear or three to get better mileage. I'm not a big fan of "diesel pushers", just because if my co-driver wants to take a nap, & there's a safety net on the bed, they're laying on top of a noisy, hot engine, that's why I want it up front, since the driver is awake anyway.
One old trucker's trick was to mix a gallon of gasoline with each 60-gallons of #2 diesel to clean the injectors;
An old VW-owner's trick was to pour a quart of #2 diesel down the carb while making sure they didn't kill the engine with it, to clean the valves. (Either way, we made sure there was at least 40k miles on the engine before doing either one, since there's no need if it's got less mileage than 40k on it.)
Where I live, (S. Nebraska), unless the car or truck doesn't "like" E10, everyone uses it, because it's 10-cents a gallon cheaper, & hybrids out here are pretty much useless, since everything is so spread out.
And, for what it's worth:
If you need Diesel, get it at a truck stop, where it's cheaper;
Gas is cheaper in town, diesel is cheaper at a truck stop.
Drive Gently!
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sparky808
Champion Author Honolulu

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 1:28:26 PM

A sad day. End the ethanol mandate.
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rocky23hy
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 7:03:52 AM

"Political science and the advancement of one industry should never be placed ahead of real science and consumer welfare.” AFPM says
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crreed1
Champion Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:17:03 AM

BS
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Dragnet
Champion Author Arizona

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:12:55 AM

What can you expect from Liberals that are tree huggers. They are all a bunch of looney tunes that don't have a clue about hardly anything as they just stay tuned-out
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CheeseMan
Champion Author Raleigh

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:10:46 AM

It's the EPA once again!!!

These EPA people making all these rules and regulations that we have to live by are not even elected.

How did they get so much power???? They are beginning to control just about all aspects of our lives.

We worry about the government having so much power over us....

How 'bout the EPA???

They really need to be brought under control.
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goodbuy
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:09:01 AM

If your congressperson or senator voted for it, FIRE THEM!!!
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bigdipperMS
Champion Author Mississippi

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:08:18 AM

EPA has to go along with our present administration.
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rahcat
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:07:25 AM

Defund the EPA!
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shores4now
Champion Author Kentucky

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:06:50 AM

Ok
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kgbellman
Champion Author Ann Arbor

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:05:18 AM

Down with E15 and up with alt fuels
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wcp3rd
All-Star Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:03:53 AM

ok
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PrinceLH
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:02:26 AM

Just be rid of it!
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SavALot
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 12:01:24 AM

challenge that has come and gone by now...
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wcp3rd
All-Star Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:57:43 PM

ok
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KY_Homeboy
All-Star Author Kentucky

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:57:04 PM

Huh??
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Mikeyl
Champion Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:56:33 PM

Never heard of E15. Is it related to E85 gas?
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petrpuck
All-Star Author Hamilton

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:53:46 PM

say what ?
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itsjustme719
Champion Author Hamilton

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:48:40 PM

Okay.
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MJIOWA
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:46:29 PM

corn for food switch grass for fuel
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kgbellman
Champion Author Ann Arbor

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:45:09 PM

Down with E15 and up with alt fuels
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Tekkersmom57
Champion Author Syracuse

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:45:02 PM

Go ahead, put E10 and E15 side by side and SEE which one is chosen. Put 100% gas out there with no ethanol at all and I think the EPA might be surprised with what the consumer picks! I dare you to give us all three choices.
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pgerassi
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:43:28 PM

Bad pure gasoline does far more damage than E15. Just think back to the 50's, 60's, and 70's where almost all gas was sold ethanol free. People paid a lot to add alcohol (at $4-10/gal for alcohol when gasoline prices were well under $1/gal retail) to their tank to get rid of condensation problems during the winter and in high humidity areas. A little water in the gas destroys engines due to hydro-lock. Stale "pure" gas is just as destructive as gum and varnish causes carburetors too run far too lean which leads to detonation and eventual engine destruction. They can also cause the float to stick open which causes hydro-lock with liquid gasoline as the agent. E15 can run a whole lot leaner without detonation than "pure" gasoline. It also cleans out gum and varnish from jets both in carburetors and fuel injectors.
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sammy518
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:41:21 PM

no E15, no FRACKING!
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Ahking
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:39:44 PM

remove the subsidiary on ethanol.
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carloco75
Champion Author Richmond

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:39:33 PM

Find real gasoline...do search and broadcast your findings!
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gerreg
Champion Author Nebraska

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:39:30 PM

OK
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honkerman
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:36:13 PM

Does anyone have the right to challenge the mighty EPA? Not likely. So...BAN ETHANOL AND BAN THE EPA.
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OOXXFF
Champion Author Greensboro

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:35:43 PM

So E15 is still with us.
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5kvdave
All-Star Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:35:09 PM

WHATEVER!!!!!
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toadNY
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:33:58 PM

Buddy2264 I have a flex fuel truck an when I use E85 my milage drops by 4 miles to a gallon. Gas has to be over .67 cents more to save on gas.
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NemoIL
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:33:48 PM

Ethanon is bad fuel.
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Buddy2264
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:29:57 PM

But will we still have E10 for older vehicles, as I drive a 1997. Guess it is time to upgrade. I want at least a flex fuel vehicle and would like it to be also hybrid.
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mrbee
Champion Author Little Rock

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:29:41 PM

No ethanol, no EPA
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listerone
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:29:11 PM

OK
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bojiway1
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:27:53 PM

hmmmmm
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toadNY
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:25:54 PM

WOW the epa saying that the groups did not have a legal right to challenge the epa decision! Sounds like they where appointed by obama! An do as he saids!
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gasgo123
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:23:38 PM

Another Obumers not caring about the citizens of the USA. He does not care about costs to the consumer for damage to damage caused by E15.
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Yankee829
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:21:43 PM

Ok
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BoerneWatch
Champion Author San Antonio

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:21:15 PM

I really wonder if the EPA guys actually own a small engined thing like a weed eater or lawn mower. The E10 destroys those, let's see how much worse the E15 will be.
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abcdMA
Champion Author Worcester

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:21:07 PM

no E85
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FunMyster
All-Star Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:20:00 PM

ok
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mcmonsta
Champion Author Honolulu

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:19:57 PM

yes we trust the EEPA too much, still run by poiticians...need we say more
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bonzoonfmb
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:19:44 PM

No more ethanol in my fuel formula - I don't care anymore what it takes to get it out.
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Jmac2008
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:19:36 PM

they need to stop producing ethanol
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mstearno
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:17:35 PM

no food for fuel
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fireless1
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 11:17:34 PM

Ok
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